|
Post by Danny on Dec 14, 2012 20:21:16 GMT -7
Henchmen Monthly FeeClass Level | Monthly Wage(gp) | 0 | 12 | 1 | 25 | 2 | 50 | 3 | 100 | 4 | 200 | 5 | 400 | 6 | 800 | 7 | 1600 | 8 | 3000 | 9 | 7250 | 10 | 12,000 | 11 | 35,000 | 12 | 60,000 | 13 | 145,000 | 14 | 350,000 |
This is the amount a typical henchmen requires per month for food, lodging, and expenses. Sometimes a henchmen may be atypical and require more or less than these amounts. MoraleMorale rolls are made each time the henchman suffers a calamity. A calamity includes suffering an energy drain, a curse, a magical disease, or being nearly killed. In addition, a morale roll should be made for each henchman at the end of each adventure whenever the henchman has leveled up, to determine if the henchman strikes off on his own or remains with the adventurer.
|
|
Kelz
Superhero
Posts: 311
|
Post by Kelz on Dec 15, 2012 0:47:20 GMT -7
Is this chart what you're using for retainers, as well?
|
|
|
Post by Danny on Dec 15, 2012 4:31:44 GMT -7
Oops, fogot to mention: henchmen = retainers.
|
|
Kelz
Superhero
Posts: 311
|
Post by Kelz on Dec 15, 2012 10:57:50 GMT -7
Is there any way that we could re-evaluate the loot + monthly fees mechanic? Or, barring that, the morale check after every adventure? I mean, if you're making 50 GP a month, but then you go on an adventure and pull in 1000 GP in gold for one outing, would you really need the 50 GP a month, or ever want to leave? MY thought on it is that if you don't take them adventuring, you pay them monthly and support them as normal, but if they go adventuring with you, then you pay them their agreed upon share and they're good to go. Morale check wise, once they'be agreed to work for you, that should be reserved for when you do something contrary to their alignment or put them in more danger than you're putting yourself in, or you screw them over somehow. I mean, if none of those things happen, then why would you leave? Just my thoughts on it.
|
|
|
Post by Danny on Dec 15, 2012 11:29:21 GMT -7
Adventurers live crazy lifestyles and henchmen are no exception. That money is gone as soon as they get it on all sorts of debauchery! As for the morale roll, it only comes up when a calamity happens(because they're too scared to keep adventuring with you) and after they level up(because they might be so enamored of their own badassery that they feel like they don't NEED you anymore.)
Morale rolls are modified by how much the henchman's share is, how much they like you, gifts, and other things determined by the DM based on circumstances!
|
|
Kelz
Superhero
Posts: 311
|
Post by Kelz on Dec 15, 2012 13:38:12 GMT -7
in the event that you do lose a retainer by morale roll, do you get to counter offer to keep them? I mean, assuming that you didn't try to kill them or something very anti alignment?
|
|
|
Post by Danny on Dec 15, 2012 13:58:12 GMT -7
I think an impressive counter offer is definitely worth a reroll, possibly with a bonus!
|
|
Kelz
Superhero
Posts: 311
|
Post by Kelz on Dec 15, 2012 14:05:51 GMT -7
Good, I'll start looking for Merrick and Merrith... assholes. lol.
|
|
|
Post by Jason on Dec 15, 2012 14:14:28 GMT -7
Well Dantalis will let Cassie go she seemed truely upset so he wont push her
|
|
Lydia
Champion
Currently playing: Fletcher, Tamli, Whistler, 'Ro, Zorba (Zack), "Bear", Rutherford
Posts: 165
|
Post by Lydia on Dec 16, 2012 1:25:24 GMT -7
I mean, if you're making 50 GP a month, but then you go on an adventure and pull in 1000 GP in gold for one outing, would you really need the 50 GP a month, or ever want to leave? So, if I give you a Christmas bonus, you don't need your salary, right? I mean, rewarding you for a job well done sounds so...costly. Morale check wise, once they'be agreed to work for you, that should be reserved for when you do something contrary to their alignment or put them in more danger than you're putting yourself in, or you screw them over somehow. Also, I know you're working in a coal mine for pennies, but you knew the risks when you signed on, right? It's not like it's MY fault that the cave collapsed in on you-- you knew the risks, you signed the contract, so you can't quit. Get back to work! Logically, I don't see how you can actually think that anyone would accept working conditions like that.
|
|
Kelz
Superhero
Posts: 311
|
Post by Kelz on Dec 16, 2012 3:37:08 GMT -7
As always, I appreciate your opinion on this. I don't think that your comparisons are accurate, though, in this particular instance. I'll try to re-outline my stance on it in case I wasn't being clear on it below;
My standpoint is that if you're taking these NPC on adventures, and they're entitled to an equal share during said adventure, that the monthly salary should be omitted. To use your analogy, it wouldn't be that since you got your christmas bonus you no longer need your salary, it would be more like if I gave you a "christmas bonus" every month instead of your salary. I completely agree with the monthly salary to keep them around if they're not tagging along and catching the loot from the adventures, but paying them a monthly salary while they're making as much money as you are doesn't seem right to me. I think that a full share is too much, honestly. As NPC's who have signed a contract to work for you, I think that the share should be negotiable upon hiring, like it was for Evro most recently. That way, the monthly stipend makes sense while at the same time giving him the chance to get extra juice for being involved in everything, but not so much that he can start his own business after one adventure. I see the retainers more as an organized crime family, where the workers are doing their jobs, but only get a small percentage of the total take until they move up. In return, they have the support of the family if shit goes down and they are taken care of on a day to day with enough cash to support themselves in normal circumstances. Until they move up, they're learning the ropes with the guidance of veterans. Once they get enough experience, they can branch out, eventually running their own operations and such.
As far as the morale rolls, I'm going off of what I've read in the book, and addressing the parts that I disagree with from a personal standpoint. To once again take your analogy, I don't think that the values on the chart come close to equating to "pennies a day", when at Lvl 2 they make 50 GP a month, which is enough for them to have their own room at the Inn and cover any incidental expenses they might occur, especially considering that as their employer I'm on the hook for their equipment, food, lodging, transportation and the like. What are they actually spending that money on, if I'm bankrolling all of their living expenses? Take that into the second part of the analogy, with the cave-in; A cave-in, to me, would represent the danger inherent in mining. By the book, the retainer checks their loyalty whenever extraordinary danger is met, and at the end of an adventure. If that same miner is attacked by a dire bear or something that's above and beyond the danger agreed upon then roll away, in my opinion. However, if there is a cave-in, which is a normal thing during mining the miner should have already accepted that risk and be able to keep going. Likewise, at the end of the adventure, after they've received that "christmas bonus", why would they leave? Because they just made a phenomenal amount of money, in comparison to their level? I mean, maybe if that crazy bonus is in the form of a diamond cave bear claw imbedded in their leg, I'd agree... but besides that it seems unrealistic to me, hence my post. Like, say Lokiin decides to leave after making literally 19 1/2 months of her normal monthly salary... what's the reasoning there?
Now, for the morale check thing after reading Danny's interpretation about them basically outgrowing the position and moving on, I can see that no problem. But that would be to me when they out-level you, not just whenever they improve. Case in Point, I would have totally understood if Lokiin left after the ass-kicking we received from Polliver. More danger than was agreed upon, someone else in the party died... makes sense to me. However, if she left after the iron ring adventure, I would have disagreed with it, from a common sense standpoint. We knew that we were getting into a fight, we got into a fight, she made alot of money and gained knowledge that allowed her to increase her proficiency within her craft... where's the downside? For all intents and purposes, she's an adventurer... that's what you sign up for. If, on the otherhand I brought a group of 30 mercenaries, who are assumed to just be "dudes" that fight for money I could see it going the opposite way. 15 go down to that fireball, the others are probably re-evaluating at that point.
At the end of the day, retainers are whatever the DM wants them to be. I see them more as subplot adventurers to share the story with. If the DM sees them as little more than freeloaders looking for the first ticket out after they make some money or conversly as additional PC's who are as pivotal as the others, it's the players place to respect that and press on. That being said, I didn't mean for the post to come across as an angst-ridden dissenter arguing the points without compromise or anything, I was just discussing them so that I could state my opinion on it, and ask about the parts of that opinion which differed. Hopefully that helps explain where I'm coming from on it. Once again, I love that everyone on here is so active and interested in all of the other conversations going on, and I can't wait to get there on Monday and see what almost kills us next! Hopefully this mile-long post more clearly emphasizes what I was trying to say originally.
|
|
Lydia
Champion
Currently playing: Fletcher, Tamli, Whistler, 'Ro, Zorba (Zack), "Bear", Rutherford
Posts: 165
|
Post by Lydia on Dec 16, 2012 11:39:34 GMT -7
I'm honestly pretty offended that every time I try to help you out, you dismiss my so-called opinion and put me down. You have consistently argued and misinterpreted how henchmen work. I was simply poking fun at your latest argument to try to lighten the mood, while also pointing out the holes in your logic.
This is certainly not cause for you to patronizingly attempt to deconstruct what I said as if you can somehow make it less true. It IS like a Christmas bonus, because you don't know how often you're going on adventures, and you don't know how often that retainer is going to be around to go on adventures. The set salary is what you pay to keep them from leaving town, essentially, to go find better places to work. The share of the treasure is amount owed for completing that specific job.
And yes, you are complaining about the morale roll, but refusing to acknowledge that real people are not generally given to acting as zealots for their jobs unless or until something happens to merit that kind of devotion. You have been demanding from day one that the henchmen should be a permanent addition to your inventory, people who work for free, double or triple your combat efficacy, and don't leave. You call them assholes or bitches for exhibiting free will, and you argue about how they should be handled.
If you want free retainers, get to level 9. I have been saying this since you started.
I'm tired of your attitude towards NPCs in this game, and your attitude towards me. I'm just as excited by my characters as you are by yours, and I'm just as interested in where the story goes. I'm trying to help you out and answer your questions, and I don't appreciate you blowing me off every time I try to help. You can wheel and deal all you want, but this is not a video game, and you don't come with a party of 4 NPCs who have to go along with your decisions because they are programmed to follow you until their "like" meter drops below 50%.
|
|
|
Post by Danny on Dec 16, 2012 13:03:50 GMT -7
Final Clarification:
1) You will interview henchmen/retainers and give them offers. These offers will then be either accepted or refused. Much of the time, you will get the chance to attempt another offer. The offer includes a guaranteed minimum fee and a partial share of all treasure found. Generally speaking, henchmen will automatically say 'no' to an offer of less than a 1/4 share. Some henchmen might not work for less than a full share, but they aren't the majority. The reason there is a random element in the process is that there has to be a way to represent the fact that sometimes people just don't like you and don't want to work for you regardless of how good the offer is.
2) While they're in your employ, they will receive morale rolls for calamities and level-ups. When you go against their alignment or moral code, there is no roll. They just leave. They do not wait for you to make a counter offer, because they do not care about the money. You have violated their ethos. Some henchmen might not feel as strongly about their moral code than others. These henchmen will almost always be more expensive.
3) Henchmen earn experience at half the rate of PCs. That means half the experience for monsters, and a rate of one xp per TWO gold pieces earned. Clever players will realize that this means giving your henchmen larger treasure shares means they level up faster. This is not without risk, of course, since they may decide to strike out on their own instead, but the morale roll will be at a bonus, since they acknowledge that you gave them that extra money.
I am not giving you this information so you guys can debate or argue about it, I'm giving it to you so you can make informed decisions, thus this thread is locked.
|
|